Author: Rodolphe Czuba (lns-p19-1-82-65-40-121.adsl.proxad.net)
Date: 03-17-2004 15:32
After the story on DHS, here is the suite of the story... I just want to precise that I may accept to believe that the packet was sent...so I may remove all what I said before...but read that and think what you want... I just need some answers to be able to search this packet...
---------------
sales@vernalelm.com wrote:
> Rodolphe,
> I'm sure that Philip is going to respond to you,
I hope because there was some precise questions to allow me to better understand what happened...
> but I would like to have my ownresponse.
>1'st of all You are totally out of line. You have
> not
> attempted to contact us once since we resent the package.
oh, STOP !
As I sent in my previous email to Philip (you didn't read it !?) I send several emails to you after the OCTOBER 8th !
I sent a ZIP folder will all emails ! Check them please and see that I send email in october & november !
I sent too a fax in November 3rd ! I have here the paper copy and the receipt acknoledge from your fax !! This means the paper is well arrived at you, no ???
Before telling a such thing, you have to verify my arguments !
They are true ! I'm honnest !
I didn't phone you because I don't find a phone number for that !
The only thing I could do was the fax because I had no news by email way !
And I did it ! Do you want I fax again this fax ???
You speak below about my professional attitude ??
No answer to a customer fax is ??
It si enough to give me doubts ! What I did at this period !
This was near 1 month after the last email from Philip !
Again, I repeat, I received no email from him after the last he sent me telling me that he will send again the packet !
After that NOTHING !
Even no email to inform me that the packet was gone !
So I don't know when it should be gone to me !!
Difficult to search at french post office, ok ??
> 2'nd of all It explicitly says on our site that you will be
> responsible
> for shiping chargesafter ground mail. You never asked for anything
> else..this is your fault and you canlet all your customers know.
OK It's my fault to choose the postal way !
But this not explaining all the story, so far !
> 3'rd of all I highly suggest that you stop what I'm guessing are
> physical threats(people looking for Philip) . This is for two reasons: 1) it
> sounds pathetic andthere is nothing scary about it 2) the Better
> Business Bureau will not look fondly onyour side of the story if you
> are offering physical threats.
What is amazing is that I was thinking about BBB to help me to get news from you !
After I did all what was possible for me to contact you (after a FAX, what could I do, pay a plane to USA ?!), It was suggsted to me to use BBB because their first (and only ?) mission is to help to solve problems !
I just received 3 days ago a letter from them about the status of the affair :
THEY DIDN't success to contact you !!
Professional attitude you told me ?? how is it possible that a company in your country is not able to get an answer from you about me ??? you have a phisical address it seems and so I consider they sent you a paper letter, no ??
2 days before this letter (so many things are happening this times ;-) ) a friend sent me an email copy of the answer from Phlip about a 060 request he did to him, just to test is your company is alive or not !
This was a big surprise to read that :
-----
I'm terribly sorry for the delay in our response; I overlooked your message
When responding to inquiries.
Our parts are actually ideal for stocking spare CPUs. We guarantee them
for 30 days, so if any are damaged in shipment or are defective (very rare
-- less than 1%), we can ensure that you have a reliable stock of quality
68060s.
We can actually offer you a significant wholesale discount at quantity 10
We have a dealer pricing page available for other quantity breaks at:
http://dealers.vernalelm.com
We also guarantee our prices to be the lowest in the market, so we'll be
happy to beat a competitive offer by 10%.
Shipping to france is as follows:
US Postal Express (via DHL): $32
(2-3 days usually) (customs brokerage normally not required for postal
shipments)
UPS Expedited International: $57
(2-3 days guaranteed) (includes any custom brokerage fees)
Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any further questions or if you'd
like to proceed with the order (we accept paypal, visa, mastercard,
discover, and bank wires).
Thanks very much,
Philip
Vernal Elm LLC
----
I was very nervous after that !!
I was thinking they continue business or start again after a 2 months meriod of total black out about my emails and fax ??
HEY GUY, could you take my place and imagine what I can think when, after a good period of business and a good communication from Philip, there is no answers at all and suddently ??!!!
My last action was to put on atari.org a message - oh everybody on atari market already knew my problem with Vernal Elm since november, so it changed nothing, except what I wanted and hope : a reaction from you !
And I did ! What a miracle !
Now I receive several mails from Phlip and you ...that's perfect....and professional ... ;-)
I just don't undestand why I never received them in october and november and later ...
We are not at stone age as I know....so why so many efforts from me to get an answer about this packet ???!
Just a question :
Philip explained in his email to this friend that you can send :
- US Postal Express (via DHL): $32
- (2-3 days usually) (customs brokerage normally not required for postal
- shipments)
How was it done for me (hey, I really can accept that you sent the packet !!) ?
If DHL, is there not a tracking number ?
You know that I remember that on my previous (good) business with you, Philip sent me traking number.
Can you give me the exact date the packet was sent ?
> 4'th)On the subject of the Better Business Bureau, there are two sides to
> every storyand I'm sure that they will understand that you have no
> real argument when they see that the mailing difficulty is attributed your
> overestimation of your country's mail by only providing the standard fee for ground shipping.
OK, but this not explains why you didn't answer to my emails and fax and why I was not informed that the second packet was gone !
My last email was : did you send the packet ?? and I never received a answer ! It is like you were subitely all two dead !
The BBB can understand that too in one of the 2 sides ...
It is what I explained in my complain to explain WHY I asked help from them !
It is more easy to them to contact them than for me...sure, after I tried severl times !
> 5'th)( and the final point ) we offered to send you the cpu's again.
That's a nice and generous offer, but after 6 month you can understand I do not need more the 060.
It is a long time now that some of my board customers had to find it themwelves (maybe at you ;-) ) and for the others I found some pieces to other sources ...
Now, what should I do with them ?? Sell them ? No easy to sell them alone...
It is your speciality, not mine...
But if the packet is somewhere, why not ! I paid and you sent them, so...the business is done and finished and there is no problems.
Finding them is my affair, with your help, at least, for the date of shipping (I do not know it !!).
> We are also out the same amount of money as the cpu's never came back to
> us.
If the french post get the packet, it is possible (I have no faith in the French Postal
Service too : they already lost one CT60 in france !) that french post keep the packet because it was dammaged (no correct address) and did not want to sent it back to USA because of the cost : I will ask them if they can not send back a packet...) I assume you address was on it, so I consider first thge packet should have sent back to you, ok ? But 'not doing correctely things' is a speciality of the french post ! :-((
> It is not our responsibility to let us know that you got the
> chips (that point is rediculous, please stop and think twice about what you are saying)
???? again I was not silent !! I sent several emails and one FAX !!
Please read the .eml in the ZIP folder ! You don't know all the story I wrote to Philip !
Please inform you and give me your opinion AFTER, please.
> I see that Philip was trying to maintain a relationship with his offer,
Yes, we always had good relation Philip and me !
It was an other reason to not understand why he didn't answer to me after October 8 th !
And because at the same period I heart about some people that have delay problems with Vernal Elm, I was really thinking that your company had some big trouble (what I can understand !), my money was burnt, my packet not gone and Phlip was moved out of the company....that was for me the only logic explanation to this silence ... !
Be agree that your silence (volontary or not !) is a fault, no ?
Maybe all emails were lost because of a problem on your server...and your fax machine sent an acknowledge without printing the fax , maybe....why not...
On my side, if Philip sent me email after october 8th, I can assure you that I had no problems with my computer and my email provider...
And my fax is working fine too...
the number I used is : (720) 294-4128
Other strange thing for me : I was never informed when you shipped the first packet !
In fact I was informed that the^packet was sent back to you by customs ...
NOW PLEASE, HAVE A LOOK on this email
It was sent to me the October 4th 2003 :
---
Rodolphe,
A customer of ours from Sweden contacted me to ask about your order. I
just wanted to make sure you received this message from last week?
Thanks,
Philip
Vernal Elm LLC
> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:03:43 -0400
> To: "Rodolphe Czuba" <rczuba@free.fr>
> From: Philip Hill <philip@vernalelm.com>
> Subject: Re: ????????????
> At 11:05 AM 9/25/03 +0200, you wrote:
>> ??????????????????????????????
>
> Rodolphe,
> I checked on your packet, and it is sitting on our shipping counter,
> returned, with a customs return stamp. Sorry about this, I assumed you
> received the packet weeks ago.
> Send me a your address to verify that it is correct, and a phone number to
> mark on the package so that this doesn't happen again, and we'll get the
> package out express ASAP.
> Regards,
>
> Philip
----
I sent back my address and phone number !
Two things :
- I never was informed by customs about a packet in standby at them !!
- I never received the email from Philip the September 25th !!
Lucky that a swedish guy ask to him and he sent a copy of his original email.
This demonstrates only two things :
- You wrote some emails that were never sent (it is impossible ok ?)
- There was a technical problem somewhere between you and me, no ?
> but as his 50/50 partner I will
> reccomend to him that on the part of a lack of communication from you
> and your failure to try and get your package from the french Postal
> system
??? I never told that !
To search a such packet I would know when it was sent ...
Give the shipping date...and I will search at the french central post where all undistributed packet are stocked for 1 year !
It is at Libourn.
> that we assume that you refuse
> the offerfor the cpu's and will now offer nothing as compensation for
> your errors. (there areno tracking numbers for the delivery type you
> got, you should know
> that...after all it was your money)
Can my money I sent you allow you do search at DHL because it seems THEY transport the packet betwwen USA & France, no ?
Here is a part of a mail from Philip in July 24th, 4 days before I paid :
>> happier to not deal with solder or pin bending, etc. As always, we will
>> guarantee all of the chips to be at 100% performance and accept your
>> returns whenever it is necessary.
>>
>> Total merchandise cost: $1625.00 USD
>>
>> Shipping options:
>>
>> UPS Express (2-3 business days) - $65 -- we will include extremely low
>> customs values
>> OR
>> Postal Express - $30
>
> I take postal because it is not urgent.
>
>>
>> UPS Total: $1690 USD
>
>> Postal Total: $1655 USD
>
> + 73 because I need now 22 full
> = 1728
>
I effectively choosed Postal Express !
And it is by DHL... I think they should confirm that they get the packet !
Up this time you assume that thepacket is lost in france...but it may be lost in USA too !
After a coming back (second !) if the return address is bad or destroyed...where should it go ??
So, please check DHL in USA too.
> Now that you understand (though I'm sure you don't want to)
:-)) that's a stupid remark ! I'm not here to faulse the reality !
I just want to know what happened !
> that you are in the wrong I suggest that you stay out of chat groups with our business
> name as I promise to return the same fire with a much more credible story.
> I truly am sorry that you were never able to acquire the chips,
me too... I lost 1728$ and you lost nothing...
> but
> as you
> can see ifyou had approached this situation with more professional
Did you not received my fax in November 3rd ?
Not professional approach ??
when a company is not respnding to fax & emails and you can't find a phone numbern what would you do at my place ???
Choose a third party like BBB ...and when this one can't get answer too and you have news that the company is alive and continue business, what wuould you think about this business ? Professional and honnest business ? I don't think you could think that if you were me ! And it what anybody would think too...
I'm sincere and honnest and all the atari community knows me and nobody will think that I'm a bad guy using lies to keep the face !
> and timely behavior thismay not have happened. I would still try and find out
> if there is a package floatingaround in the mail.
> Anyways, make sure to not be cheap and pay for insurance next time.
> Especially on products you take full payments for two years in
> advance. (Now that's bad business ifyou ask me...come to think of it I
> can see why you might need to put some blame on someone else if you got yourself in a position where you were
> late with delivery)
I had no problems with delivery of CT60 : people who ordered it were informed at each step of the development (ask them !) and I begin shipping the board in June 2003 with the 060 I bought to you in the past ...
Up to this time, only 2 guys cancelled their order : one because leaving atari computer world and one because money problems and I get back to them money ! People know that I just design CT60 to help community at the beginning and that I needed the money by advance because I was jobless with money problem and I was un able to pay the CT60 design from my pocket !!
That was a deal their accepted and I thank them... At bebruary 2002 I foound a good job in switzerland and was anable to finish the design...and I finished it only from May to June 2003... no secret about that !
After shipping more than 100 boards... I just decided to order again at you to finish shipping !
At this time my delivrey was late because I didn't received the 060...
Nobody blaimed me about that...some accept to receive CT60 without the 060...and some others accepted to wait up I find other 060 and have money to buy them (my business is so small that loosing 1728 $ was a catastroph for me and my familly : ask my wife if you dont believe that !!!). I ask help to several US and swedish guys to try to contact you...
Time after time I get a bit money and bought some small qty of CPU...
I was lucky because a german guy proposed me 24 CPU with E41J mask at 40 EUR each... at the good moment.
With them, I was abble to deliver more other CT60.
After, only 20 units were not delivered and no customers cancelled their order, they all wait for me and my 060...
Ben
> Disgusted Co-Owner of Vernal Elm LLC
Rodolphe
> Designer of CT60 and not business man but not so stupid ...
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